MyDD :: This can't be true

This can't be true

by hebi, Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:53:38 AM EST

But sadly it is.

As a Dutch national, living in Sweden, but politically active in progressive politics since I was 16, I'm familiar with American politics, but not really an insider.

When I first heard Barack Obama speak after his victory in Iowa, the first thing I told my wife was : "I've just been listening to a speech of the next President of the United States" and I felt really good about it. The last couple of years have not really been nice to someone with progessive political opinions, who happens to like the US. But it looked like the times, they were about to be changing. My second sentence was : "If some nut does not kill him" and that thought really took a big bite out of my feelgood moment.

Allthough I was very young when it happened, I can still vividly remember the sadness and disillusionment that washed over the world when two real American hero's were killed in a single year. I was eight years old, but I still remember the sadness I felt (problably because my parents were very uppset) when the news was broadcasted in the Netherlands.

This morning, when I opened Huffington Post, my first thought was that HP was crossing the line with very sick humor. My second thought was, that the people there were spinning a very vague reference into something bad. But when I saw the video showing HRC's interview, I was so complettely flabergasted, that I had to watch it again before it really landed.

Of all the tone-deaf, stupid, unbelievably irresponsible remarks made by American politicians, this is in my opinion the worst ever.

I can not understand, that a politician as experienced as HRC, is capable of combining the unfairness of her being pushed out of the race, with a reference to Bobby Kennedy's assasination.

Does she not understand, that among her 17 million supporters, there just might be one or two who take this the wrong way ???
Does she not understand, that the fear of an assasination is just about the biggest fear right now for a lot of the supporters of Barack Hussein Obama (and probably of 99.9 % of all the people in the US that follow political developments)???

Well, let me tell you this Hillary, the Democratic primaries are allready over, there is a clear winner, so politically it doesn't matter what you say, but personally I want you to shut up and stop saying stupid and hurtfull things like this.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bobby Kennedy (all tags)

Permalink :: 27 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

Ah Sweden, a sane country without this country's penchant for political assassination. Here, sadly, assassination is always an unmentionable factor.

I wonder what Colin Powell thinks of the latest developments.

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:05:01 AM EST

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

Sadly, not true.
In political murders, I've had my share in Holland (Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn) and Sweden (Olof Palme and Anna Lindh).

by hebi on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:26:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

I think Hillary will get about -10% of the remaining Black vote.

by gcensr on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:09:20 AM EST

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

more like 01.00%

"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08

by feliks on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:42:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

I suppose we both have to tread carefully here. Though I have lived and worked in the states on and off for two decades, I don't think I still quite get the horror Americans have recalling the dark days of 60s political violence.

But Americans would be doing themselves no service if they just sweeped this fear under the carpet. Like the issues of racism and sexism, it is better aired and in the open. You and I know that, for Europeans, the assassination fear is one often talked about here. We too are somehow deformed by that trauma.

Let's not blame Hillary. We're all equally guilty in feeling this fear and being unable to utter it. But an unexpressed fear grows in silence

Like so many issues that these primary wars have opened up, I believe they prove that these live rails can be defused. The ghost is exorcised by being exposed to the light.

The spectre of political violence has for too long stalked the US political scene. Let's air the thought and then banish it. Only that way can fear seep away from the land.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:18:53 AM EST

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

I have to respectfully disagree. Political assassinations aren't the same thing as societal attitudes such as racism and sexism.

Assassinations are lone-wolf operations. Unhinged individuals who aren't thinking rationally to begin with. People who are overly emotionally attached to what the politician represents, or pathologically hateful of them.

A national discussion about assassination isn't going to solve a problem, or lead to a deeper understanding, or work towards eradicating the problem. The people that commit crimes like that don't care. What they do care about is hearing the cues from powerful figures and interpreting them through their own sickness. Clinton was highly, highly irresponsible in that regard.

The assassinations in our political history are tragedies and should be honored respectfully as such. The most recent ones are very painful for many people that lived through them. But there is no national dialog to be had on assassinations. They're horrible, and tragic, and the fact of the matter is, Clinton and every elected politician has a responsibility when they discuss the subject publicly. She failed to live up to that responsibility.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:32:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

Oh well before the 1992 campaign I suppose no prospective president should have brought up the movie JFK? President Bush and Bill Clinton were BOTHasked about the movie and Bush gave one of his assinine responses. Clinton's was better. The Kennedy assassination is NOT brought up enough IMO. If the Kennedy family themselves in their collective myopia had actually read a few books on the subject ( Did you know that JFK's brain at the National Achives is missing and to this day NOBODY knows what happened top it!) then we might have gotten to the truth.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:17:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

OK, you just outed yourself as a conspiracy theorist. You're nuts, you need counseling. You're not a Clinton supporter, you're not even anti-Obama, not really, you're just sick in the head. Get help.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:20:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

Okay you're an arrogant pompous ass. No wonder why you support Obama. If you had actually read a few books on the assassination you might understand what I was talking about. Try Sylvia Meagher's "Accesories After the Fact", or Anthony Summers "Conspiracy". You can get them at any library. Then comment on someone you don't even know being a conspiracy buff. These are excellent books, well sourced.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:37:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

If the Kennedy family themselves in their collective myopia had actually read a few books on the subject

Your arrogant pompous words, not mine. I'm glad you think you read a few books and suddenly you're able to pass judgment on the family of the men that were killed. You're sad, delusional, and far beyond any realistic portrayal of an average Clinton supporter. I'm serious - get some help.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:41:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

The Kennedy family has pulled the wool over their eyes for years (Edward Moore Kennedy being the worst) about the assassination. They have defended the Warren Commission even when it has been proven to be inaccurate and are primarily responsible for the lack of mainstream media scrutiny over the facts for more than 40 years. Now those are the facts.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:17:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As outsiders, Hebe (none / 0)

I also have to respectfully disagree. Assassinations are long established forms of Political Terror, and like other forms of terror we've witnessed graphically in more recent history, these techniques came to the fore in the 19th Century, particularly in revolutionary or anarchist movements.

I don't really you can separate the political violence of the 1960s from the civil rights and radical movements of those times. The extent of political motivation behind them is moot. The political IMPACT they had cannot be underestimated. Hundreds of American cities are only just beginning to recover from the urban and social impact of Martin Luther King's death.

This all might sound extraordinary and historical, but 2008 has been an extraordinary and historical year for the democratic party. Thanks to security measure, I don't think for one moment that political terror of this kind is really possible in this campaign. But to remove the political context from political violence, and turn it into a personal tragedy only is actually diluting the true tragedy. And as Rabin's death showed, assassinations can have tragic impacts on whole societies. Not to air this, not to protect both politicians and the public from the psychological as well as the physical threat, and leave it all hanging, does little good in my opinion.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:14:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The crazy thing is... (none / 0)

If something does happen to Obama, there will be a huge number of people that blame Hillary Clinton, whether her words had anything to do with it or not. She'll not go another election without a primary challenger.

In one stroke, we'll have lost the two most powerful forces in Democratic politics.

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:42:43 AM EST

Re: The crazy thing is... (none / 0)

Her comment (and timing) was absolutely brilliant. She instantaneously regained the spotlight which had been turned off and packed up.

The best thing to do now is shake our heads, turn our backs, and go back to ignoring her.

by xdem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:55:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Most powerful voice? (none / 0)

Kennedy, yes. Clinton, in her own mind, and maybe in the minds of those who identify with her. But really, what's she done?

I challenged a good friend of mine who supports Clinton to find one major positive acomplishment of hers (or Bill's, even). She hasn't come up with one yet.

by Garret on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:41:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most powerful voice? (none / 0)

Bill's: How about the greatest ecomony in American history. That's quite an accomplishment. What earth-shattering achievements did Obama accumulate in Springfield?

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:19:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most powerful voice? (none / 0)

Whoa, partner.

I don't think Sen. Clinton has accomplished much in the Senate, and I am an Obama supporter.

But President Clinton? Here are a few of his accomplishments:

1. Led the country to its best economic shape ever -- lowest unemployment, lowest inflation, most new businesses started, highest rate of home ownership, lowest level of poverty, etc.

2. Signed Family and Medical Leave Act into law.

3. Spearheaded peace in Northern Ireland, a seemingly impossible task.

4. Led the way to bringing an end to the massacres in former Yugoslavia without the loss of a single American life.

5. Brought an end to the Mexican financial crisis via executive order. This stroke of brilliance was overlooked. Had he not done this, the situation surely would have adversely affected our economy, and he would have been blamed for inaction.

6. Left Governor Bush a nation at peace and with bountiful prosperity.

I'm sure I'm forgetting countless other accomplishments, and while I find Sen. Clinton's presidential bid ugly and hearbreaking, I will defend her husband's terms in office as long as I'm alive.

by BenderRodriguez on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:22:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This can't be true (2.00 / 1)

I think this is the biggest bunch of BS yet in this campaign. What in the name of perdition are you people talking about. To suggest that Hillary Clinton had some devious plan to remind people that Obama could be assassinated (she could be too by the way-there are MORE people that hate her in case you haven't noticed)is so bizarre that I wonder why supposedly intelligent people would bring it up . Hillary made the same historic reference in March to Time Magazine. THERE WAS NO clutching of pearls, having the vapors outrage THEN. WHY? I'll tell you why because the Obama crowd a la Olbermann want to put the kabosh on any talk of the vice presidency and this is a very convenient way of going about it. About Obama after Iowa: I suppose if you enjoy fatuous puff upped rhetoric well you've got your guy. I find his speechifying grating, "preachy" and annoying in the worst way. And where does he get those southern magnolia intonations in his voice? When Hillary tried that bullshit I wanted to puke too. Why does Obama get away with it, he's never even lived in the south. At least Hillary did for 16 years.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:10:37 AM EST

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

You have some irrational problems of your own. The fact that you just use it to slide into more childish insults against Obama says all it needs to about where you stand on the issue. Pathetic.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

Who are you the arbiter of what's childish or not? Methinks you have a mighty high opinion of yourself.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:18:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This can't be true (none / 0)

Sorry my friend, you're a conspiracy theorist and you're completely out of your element in a reality-based conversation. You just outed yourself upthread. There's no reason to take anything you say as a harbinger of the collective Clinton supporter consciousness, because you have some serious reality-based issues. Seek therapy.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So... (none / 0)

If something slips under the radar once (or three times, as it were), that means people give up the right to be mad when they finally hear about it?

In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

by Dracomicron on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:28:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

upstategirl (none / 0)

I noticed you haven't actually responded to what I said vis a vis the fact that Hillary made the same reference almost 3 months ago and no "outrage". But I guess I'm being "chidish" to bring up such a relevent point.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:21:38 AM EST

Re: upstategirl (none / 0)

Actually, I did. You chose to ignore it completely.

At this point, the only real chance Clinton has to win the nomination is if Obama is unelectable. This was not true three months ago; it is true now. The biggest real possibility of that happening is if the unspeakable happens. She referenced that exact thing in her comments about why she's still running an active campaign. That was irresponsible, thoughtless, and completely unprofessional for a politician of her experience and stature. She will pay a political price for it, just as any candidate in her position would given the circumstances.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:26:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: upstategirl (none / 0)

Where did you resond to the comment made about the March interview in Time? Where? And your pal Obama is just the epitome of graciousness, "You're likeable enough Hillary."

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: upstategirl (none / 0)

What does that have to do with anything? I answered your question, now you want to know what I said back in March about the same thing? You don't make any sense, you're locked in some delusion that anonymous people on the Internet are somehow Obama's responsibility, and your obvious pathological dislike of the man supersedes any rational analysis of the situation - rational being the key word. No one cares about your vote or how you're deciding it. You don't reflect any reasonable viewpoint held by an average voter and its the height of irrationality for you to portray yourself as such. You're a sad person and you need some emotional counseling.

by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:44:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: upstategirl (none / 0)

I wasn't on this board in March and perhaps you should have made that clearer. Okay, nuff said. On a larger point I could do without your cheasey Sigmund Freud impersonation. There are millions of us who have a lot of problems with that pompous ass Obama and his legions of lemmings. Not liking Obama is no proof of mental defectiveness, although it does show we can spot a phony a mile away.

by handsomegent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:08:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.